Mazda3 MPS Vs RX-8 0 to 100km/h times

Have your say on the RX8

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Smurf
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Mazda3 MPS Vs RX-8 0 to 100km/h times

Post by Smurf » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:57 am

I'm starting to get $hit from friends already about how fast the MPS3 is...(ie faster to 100 than the RX-8)...so I wrote this letter to Mazda...

Dear Sir / Madam

On behalf of RX-8 owners across Australia, I’d just like to thank you for releasing a $40,000 4-cylinder hatchback onto the market that is faster than my $60,000 RX-8.

I could understand the move if Mazda’s flagship was a large luxury sedan for example, but Mazda’s flagship is the RX-8, a sports car; a sports car that can now be outgunned by a $20,000 cheaper hatchback from it’s own stable.

I hear Porsche are updating the Boxster so that it is quicker than the 911 and Mitsubishi have confirmed plans to make the $40K version of their Lancer faster than the EVO IX. Not wanting to miss out on the trend, Subaru have modified the WRX so that it is faster than the $60,000 STi.

Your sources are quoted as touting the 3MPS as the ‘fastest production Mazda yet’. I believe the Rx-7 from 1997 onwards was quicker than the 6.0 seconds to 100km time the 3MPS is said to be capable of.

My RX-8 is the fifth rotary Mazda I have owned and the 30 scale model rotary Mazda’s displayed in my home office along with countless books, posters, magazines and brochures must make me one of those ‘rotary nuts’. I remember 1991 Le Mans like it was yesterday and particularly what was powering that race car, so as one of the ‘faithful’, please tell me exactly what it is you are doing to the Rotary Engine and why Mazda is thumbing its nose at the very embodiment of its spirit.

Yours sincerly etc etc...

What I got back from Mazda is attached to this post...
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Lock & Load
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Post by Lock & Load » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:24 pm

Nice speech ,but the fact remains that mazda will loose the captive rotary audience it currently has unless they upgrade the RX8 BY MORE THAN MERE COLOURS and cosmetic BS :wink:
"Dont drive Faster than your guardian angel can Fly "

Be who you are and say what you feel , because those who mind dont matter and those who matter dont mind .


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Bazza
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Post by Bazza » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:45 pm

I think make your RX-8 into a $70,000 investment and Blow them all away, Happy Days are Here Again. Woo Hoo.
No MPS B'shit gonna beat me.....Cant wait for the day I pull up next to one at the traffic lights. :twisted:
Shake N Bake

RX8 04 6sp-NON turbo

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Lock & Load
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Post by Lock & Load » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:15 am

Scott

By the time the Mazdaspeed RX8 comes out especially to Australia , you will probably be running a 20B Turboed RX8 :lol: :lol: :wink: 8)
"Dont drive Faster than your guardian angel can Fly "

Be who you are and say what you feel , because those who mind dont matter and those who matter dont mind .


B....free
Michael

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Bazza
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Post by Bazza » Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:38 pm

Already thought about it, thats the way I would go instead of a 15K super/turbo charger.
Shake N Bake

RX8 04 6sp-NON turbo

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Post by takahashi » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:29 pm

Well done on your effort Smurf

But there is no way they can make it lying down all the power out of the corner for the 3 MPS. Hence it is not a faster car. No FWD car is. Integra Type R is the closest and it can be made undrivable over 170kW.
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Smart Deloise

Post by Smart Deloise » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:18 pm

now now people... what are your favorite places to travel to? :)

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Post by timbo » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:39 pm

takahashi wrote:Well done on your effort Smurf

But there is no way they can make it lying down all the power out of the corner for the 3 MPS. Hence it is not a faster car. No FWD car is. Integra Type R is the closest and it can be made undrivable over 170kW.
Hmm...that's not what Rick Bates reckons. Up to 300bhp, a 'good' fwd beats rwd & awd, so he says.

I'm just quoting. But he knows his onions...and has the fastest RX-8 lap of Wakefield :shock:

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Post by takahashi » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:50 pm

A racing driver in a one wheel drive car will beat you driving a polo, Timbo :lol:

I understand what Rick Bates is saying, but how good is a fwd has to be to get no torque steer. :wink:
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timbo
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Post by timbo » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Torque steer is a different issue

Torque steer means you have traction :wink: ...it may not be comfortable, or look pretty...but it means the power is getting to the road :lol:

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Post by takahashi » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:17 pm

I should have tracked my Integra DC2R to have more info to say this, but I don't think I have much traction under power in that little car. Judging what professional have rated that Type R. I wonder.

Not sure... :lol:
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Post by Smurf » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:58 pm

:roll: I really didn't want this to turn into a FWD Vs RWD argument becasue they literally go on forever and both formats have their respective strengths and weaknesses...can we leave it at that :?:

I was more after some feedback from other RX-8 owners as to what they think/how they feel about Mazda producing a shopping trolley that is faster than their own 'flagship sportscar'...and let's not side-step it guys...it does accelerate faster, no question...Mazda claiming 6.1 sec to 100km/h against RX-8's 6.4 seconds (splitting hairs I know)...fact remains this thing is $20k cheaper than our 'sportscar' and faster...now is it just me or does this seem a little out of whack to you??? :?: John Carey from Wheels magazine will be road testing the MPS3 soon and tells me he/they at Wheels are expecting sub-6 second times (and they do all of their testing with 1 driver and 1 passenger)

I can't think of any other makers in the same boat, although I'm sure some of you will point some out to me... :roll:

All I can think is this...

Either mazda has sold us the dump :evil:
OR
A faster RX-8 or (please GOD YES) a new RX-7 is on the way. :D

Until we are all turbo'd a MPS3 will leave us lagging in any traffic light derby...are yawl happy with that :?:

If mazda had to make it's feircest dragon yet, WHAY THE HELL ISN'T IT A ROTARY :!: What's wrong with these people. :evil: :evil: :evil: :!: :!: :!:

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Post by takahashi » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:46 pm

Wheel can only do a 6.9 in the RX-8. Seee... a second slower from 0-100.

I think the car will be truely sick.

I read some drive report on line that they hate the handling of it. It was posted in the ozmazdaclub forum.

I just don't care - there will be cars that faster and cheaper than RX-8 in a straight line. See all the Nissan Skylines on the road. a WRX is faster. How about some lightly tuned Integra Type Rs. Holden Common hore SS (same price and more power than MPS3??)!?

So what is the problem Smurf?
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MY Review of the Mazda 3 MPS

Post by Robby_jai » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:25 pm

HI Smurf & ALL

I managed to score a very extended test drive of the Mazda 3 MPS thanks to a very very friendly sales guy :).
I have the same feeling as you and was pretty pissed off with what mazda did.

However if you are interested here is my unbiased review of what I thought of the Mazda 3 MPS.

The styling of the 3 MPS is no where as in your face as the Mazda 6MPS (quite personally i think the 6MPS car is ugly).
Its actually quite ok and acceptable in the flesh.

The seats inside the car itself just doesnt have the same level of support,comfort as an RX8.
The BOSE sound system in the sports version i drove was actually quite tinny and lacked the clarity of the bose system in the RX8
even tho the dealer swears black and blue its the same system.

The pedal lay out of the car is not soo great especially for heel and toe as the brakes
and acelerator pedal i think are spaced too far apart.
The clutch take up point is ridiculously high. The gear box is notchy and
going from FIRST to second, or third to second or even fourth to second
is just terrible. You end up hunting for the second gear as it just seems
to refuse to slot into gear nicely. On some ocassions i just couldnt be
bothered with second gear and went to third. The torque took care of the
rest


The gear change has a lot to be desired.


So how does it drive you ask ?????

In simple words. RIDICULOUSLY FAST in a straight line. The amount of
power from third gear upwards, when you stomp on the acelerator, we
could NEVER EVER hope in hell of matching with an RX8. The MPS3 would
leave it dead in the water. (first and second gear is limited and
controlled by the ECU to reduce torque steer but still very very responsive and powerful)


Quite frankly the in gear rolling response is ridiculous powerful. I've
driven numerous times a WRX, EVO 6's and even Mercs C32. This thing
easily compares with driving those things and I would not be surprised if
the 3 MPS could lunch a WRX on a rolling start, even a straight line drag.
IT IS THAT RESPONSIVE AND QUICK. although the electronics can
interfere too much on some situations.


however, i personally believe that quite frankly the car is downright
dangerous for the uninitiated and any one who has very little or no
understanding of how a car behaves with 190kw and 380Nm driving out
the front wheels.


THAT car will torque steers like crazy. The amount of times i stomped on
the gas pedal and had to hold on very firmly to the steering wheel to
ensure i dont go catapulting into the cars next to me is quite scary. The
steering wheel grab from torque steer is very very firm and can take
people by surprise if they dont expect it. and dont even thinking about
driving it aggressively out of a corner!!!



Aim the car at a piece of windy road and you can forget about any
pretense of handling in this car.

IT HAS NONE. the car was very very twitchy and fidgety over anything
but smooth roads straight roads, had a very bad tendency to understeer
(push out) into corners, performed direction changes poorly and body
rolled far more than I expected.

any undulation, irregulaties, camber changes on the road had the car
bouncing, crashing and twitching all over the road with a fair bit of
tramlining happening!!!

it lacks the balance of an RX8 and just didnt seem to like the flowing curvy roads that I threw at it.

I tried different driving styles to see which suited it best and to be honest
what suits it best is going hard into a corner, hitting the brakes and
GENTLY feathering the throttle out of corners until it got enough grip to
give it plenty of juice. With an RX8 I find i could attack a corner literally
and driving my way around a bend etc. Try that with an 3 MPS and u will find the understeer and torque action will have you spearing into the first
tree!


The car certainly does not have the balanced fluid movement of the RX8
or any sports car like it.

The ABS brakes are OVERLY aggressive and sensitive and can be
triggered FAR too easily and quickly which doesnt make for a pleasant and driving experience as the ABS brakes tend to reign in on the fun far
too easily.

the interior room is relatively ok and only MARGINALLY bigger than the
RX8. HOWEVER it does have a massive and roomy boot. fit and finish is pretty good with a good mazda fit and finish.


Over all what is my oppinion? TO be honest in my oppinion, this car is an
afterthought. A response from mazda to take on the likes of the GTI,
Renault Clio Cup, Focus Xr5, Astra VXR, minis and so on. AND IT clearly
shows it. what they have done is taken a basic hatch body shell, stuffed the biggest engine they could find, whacked on bigger wheels, bigger
brakes, used a whole bunch of tricky electronics and basically threw it out
onto the market. GOLF GTI, Mini SuperCharged is a far superior product.
It lacks the finess of a pure sports car.


so in the end, yes the 3 MPS will lunch us in a straight line, but that car
will never be as fun or good to drive on a nice good piece of windy roads
like the national parks in wollongong, or the Bells Line of Road.


The cost of the RX8 car certainly can be justified with all the engineering
and fine chasis tuning and so on.


So would I buy a 3 MPS ?? If i was younger and loved going ridiculously
fast in a straight line and didnt give two rats about bends and corners.
YES. WITH OUT a doubt for that price its pretty dam good.


However im not younger, and i enjoy the challenge of a windy piece of
road so no i wouldnt!!! this car is aimed at the young generation where going as fast as you can in a straight line is your bragging rights.

However I would expect Mazda to correct the balance of power a bit and
put more grunt into the RX8 or they will face a riot from RX8 owners who will be extremely pissed off when every idiot in a 3MPS lines them up and initiates a drag just to be a smart arse.



Thats my thought on the 3 MPS.


Just to note, i actually walked in to the dealer with the preconcieved
thought that if the 3MPS was a better product i would buy it. Well I still
have my RX8 today after my test drive yesterday.

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Post by takahashi » Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:30 pm

Nice write up

We = wanna try
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